The Economics of Artisan Bicycle Frame Building in France. Or the art of determining a fair price

Craft, Manufacturing, and Why the Distinction Matters

There’s a growing confusion in discussions about framebuilding, and it keeps leading people to the same conclusion: that the way to make framebuilding “sustainable” is to systemise it, batch it, optimise it, and scale it slightly. In other words, to turn it into micro manufacturing.

That may well be a viable business model. But it is not craft.

The problem is not economic. It is definitional.

What craft actually is

Across craft theory, from Aristotle through to David Pye and Richard Sennett, craft is not defined by size, sincerity, or care. It is defined structurally.

At its core, craft is the workmanship of risk.

That means the quality of the outcome depends on the judgement, skill, and responsiveness of the maker in the moment of making. Things can go wrong. Decisions matter. The work cannot be fully guaranteed in advance by systems, fixtures, or procedures.

Judgement lives in the hands and the eye.
Risk is carried by the maker.
Quality is not detachable from the person doing the work.

This is not nostalgia. It is a technical description of how certain kinds of work function.

Manufacturing is different, even when done well

Manufacturing, by contrast, is based on the workmanship of certainty. Quality is designed into the system so that outcomes are as independent as possible from who is performing the task.

That can involve very high skill. It can involve intelligence, care, and ethics. It can be done at small scale or large scale. None of that changes the category.

If the work is structured so that fixtures, jigs, procedures, batching, and repeatability remove most of the risk at the moment of making, then quality belongs to the system, not the individual judgement of the maker.

That is manufacturing.

Again, this is not a criticism. Manufacturing is essential. But it is not the same thing as craft.

Jigs, fixtures, and the slippery slope

Pye is very clear that risk exists on a spectrum. All making involves some constraint. A jig, and Pye defines this very broadly, is anything that limits the maker’s freedom of action and reduces risk.

Using a jig does not suddenly turn craft into manufacturing. Craft has always used aids.

But the direction matters.

The more risk is reduced at the moment of making, the more judgement is transferred out of the hands and into the system. When enough of that happens, the work crosses a line. It becomes manufacturing, even if it is done by one person in a small workshop.

This is cumulative, not binary.

Why this matters for framebuilding

Many current discussions about “sustainable” framebuilding assume that the only way forward is to systemise production so more frames can be made with less risk, less time, and more predictability.

That may make a business viable.

But it does not make craft viable.

It replaces craft with manufacturing.

If framebuilding survives only by becoming micro manufacturing, then framebuilding as a craft has not been saved. It has been abandoned.

There is nothing wrong with that choice. What is wrong is pretending it is something else.

Why language matters

Once we decide that manufacturing is also craft, the word craft stops meaning anything.

If solo manufacturing is craft, then mass production is craft.
If everything careful and small scale is craft, then nothing is.

At that point, words like “craft”, “artisan”, and “handmade” collapse into marketing language. They no longer describe how work is done or where responsibility sits. They just signal taste.

Historically, craft language mattered because it communicated risk, judgement, and lineage. It told you something real about how an object came into being and who carried responsibility for it.

Diluting that language does not democratise craft. It empties it.

The honest position

If someone wants to run a solo manufacturing business, optimise processes, batch work, and reduce risk in the moment of making, that is entirely valid. It may even be necessary in today’s economy.

But it should be named honestly.

It is manufacturing.

Craft, in the strict sense, remains what it has always been: work where judgement, risk, and time cannot be designed away, only carried.

Confusing the two does not make craft sustainable. It makes it disappear quietly, while keeping the vocabulary.

And that is the real danger.

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Excellent post and very clear definitions.

I think the biggest difference here is perceived by the builder rather than the consumer. Craft is fun. Making a bicycle yourself from start to finish is hugely satisfying. Having a job in a factory, not so much. I like welding but I wouldn’t want to weld the same joint over and over again for 8h a day.

Indeed the way I see it, as a hobbyist, is that when someone lets me make them a bike they’re doing me a favour. I only charge them for the materials, and try to make sure the total comes in at excellent value compared to what they could buy in the shops.

But from the customer’s point of view, the manufactured or micro-manufactured product is likely to be of equivalent or even higher quality (provided nobody’s issued an order from above to cut corners). The value of a custom bike to them might be the whole process, getting to discuss exactly what they want, but a craft bike has no value over a manufactured one per se. They are only interested in the quality.

So maybe craft is the only way they can get the exact bike they want. Or maybe with enough skill and experience you can do craft for the same cost as manufacturing. Or maybe you can market craft with the “built locally with love” vibe. There are options. But it’s tough.

As for learning, yes it certainly helps to have an excellent teacher in real-life. But the majority of any learning process is practice and you have to do that for yourself. You just need the right pointers. I know many of you offer courses or have been on them and I am sure they are excellent. But you can also learn how to weld and do everything else you need to know from YouTube. That is a game-changer. Jody won’t physically hold your hand, but the trade-off is he’s a better welder than you were ever likely to find in a local workshop (OK they would have been brazing anyway but you get the point).

And that old-school method didn’t just teach practical knowledge (which it was good for) but also a lot of what Jobst Brandt used to call “Myth and Lore”. You still sometimes meet people on bike forums who insist that steel is stiffer after a heat-treatment (as we all know it’s stronger and less ductile, but has the same modulus). When you point that out they harrumph that they were somebody famous’s apprentice and built frames for 20 years. I don’t miss that.

You said

“If the work is structured so that fixtures, jigs, procedures, batching, and repeatability remove most of the risk at the moment of making, then quality belongs to the system, not the individual judgement of the maker.”

There’s a big hole as I see it in this definition, which is the joining method - welding, fillet brazing, lugs.

There are of course loads of ways of making the cutting of tubes, fitting of bosses etc faster with fixtures, tooling and procedures. But there are none for welding/brazing. The only way to get good at joining methods is to practice and use your learnt judgement. Tig welding a 0.6mm tube is only possible with practice, you can’t fixture youre way around that one, and yet there are loads of people across the globe who can weld such a joint; i can, other small framebuilders can, but so can loads of people in the Maxway or Fort factories.

So under this definition almost all frames made anywhere are “craft” because they all had a skilled person joining the tubes together using nothing but a simple tool and the application of experience, with nothing stopping them from screwing it up except their ability. If anything, according to this definition, lugged frames are closer to manufacturing because the brazing is more readily automated, as seen in the Panasonic video.

I really would reject this definition, I think it’s a poor way of drawing a distinction between the two concepts, i think technological development and the passing of time make this argument much more nuanced than could possibly be condensed into a short definition like that.

Secondly, It really sounds like you conflate anything more production oriented than using only files as manufacturing. The sliding scale that all this lies upon has a lot more nuance than that, just because someone has a few mills set up for particular tasks doesn’t exclude them from “craft”.

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I think there’s a bit of category mixing here. Older builders weren’t engineers, they were empiricists. They described material behaviour in the language they had, based on repeated observation, repair, and failure. Sometimes the terminology was imprecise, but the phenomena they were pointing at were real.

Craft theory has never claimed that craft always produces objectively superior products, or that information isn’t valuable. It claims that judgement under risk is embodied, time-dependent, and cannot be fully replaced by documentation or instruction.

YouTube is an incredible resource, but it doesn’t sequence responsibility or expose learners to long-term consequences. That’s the gap apprenticeship historically filled.

None of this is about romance or dismissing modern tools. It’s about being clear what kinds of knowledge they actually produce, and what they don’t.

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I think there’s a misunderstanding here. I’m not proposing a new or simplified definition of craft myself, I’m paraphrasing and applying an existing framework, primarily David Pye’s, from The Nature and Art of Workmanship. That framework explicitly treats craft and manufacturing as a spectrum, not a binary, defined by where judgement and risk sit across the whole process.

I’m also not reducing framebuilding to welding or brazing. Joining is obviously a critical operation, and you’re absolutely right that TIG welding or brazing thin tubes involves embodied skill and workmanship of risk, whether that happens in a small workshop or in a factory. In that limited sense, the people doing that work are exercising craft skill.

But Pye is very clear that the presence of risk in one operation does not make the entire object or process craft. What matters is where end to end responsibility and decisive judgement live.

In a factory context, the welder’s judgement is narrowly scoped. Geometry, tube choice, tolerances, alignment strategy, and correction are externalised into the system. The welder is responsible for executing a joint, not for the bicycle as a whole. Quality at the level of the frame belongs to the production system, not to the judgement of a single maker. That’s why I’d say those welders can be craftspeople without being framebuilders in the traditional sense.

Pye explicitly allows for this. He also explicitly says that jigs and fixtures do not abolish risk, but they relocate it. As more of the outcome is guaranteed by fixtures, procedures, batching, and division of labour, workmanship shifts toward certainty, even if individual operations still involve risk. That’s not a moral judgement, it’s a structural description.

On lugs and Panasonic, I actually agree with you. Lugged construction can be pushed toward certainty, and historically often was. The presence of lugs doesn’t magically make something craft. Pye is very clear on that too.

And finally, I’m not conflating “anything more advanced than files” with manufacturing. Craft has always used aids. The distinction is whether tools support judgement or replace it, and whether the maker still carries responsibility for the object as a whole.

If you think this framework is insufficient or outdated, that’s a legitimate position. But that disagreement really needs to be with Pye’s theory itself, not with a short paraphrase of it in a forum post. Otherwise it risks looking like I’ve just pulled a definition out of thin air, when in fact I’m pointing to a much larger, well established body of thought.

If the theory is wrong, the right move is to say where it fails and what replaces it. Until then, I’m not defining craft, I’m working within a definition that already exists and was written precisely to make sense of these distinctions.

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Not necessarily. You won’t know that 531 and 753 have the same material stiffness unless you either learn that from a book or do a scientific experiment. There’s even that story that Merckx complained his 753 frame was too stiff, so someone made him one with a 531 main triangle (but I think the same gauges– otherwise it would actually be stiffer!) and 753 stays. What was that all about? Maybe the story itself is a myth.

But yes agree real world experience of failures is highly valuable (and people have often said the ISO tests are unrepresentative of real-world failures).

I think we’re getting closer here, but a couple of things are still being talked past.

First, on the point about 531 and 753, I’m not claiming older builders somehow knew elastic modulus, or that their terminology maps neatly onto modern engineering definitions. Of course it doesn’t. The theory existed by the 1950s, but framebuilders didn’t really need it for the work they were doing.

What they were responding to was experienced behaviour of materials, particularly during fabrication, cold setting, alignment, repair, and long term use. How a tube yields, how it springs back, how it tolerates correction, how it fails, how it survives crashes. All of that is real, tactile information. Calling it “stiffness” is imprecise, but the observation itself isn’t imaginary.

Most builders actually described 753 as whippier in use, not harsher, which makes sense once you strip the language away. Same modulus, yes, but thinner walls, standard diameters, different ductility, and different behaviour under correction and fatigue. Whether that translates cleanly into ride feel is debatable, but the bench level observations were real.

Second, on Merckx and “stiffness”. If he was talking about harshness rather than stiffness, that’s a different subject entirely. Harshness is an experienced quality, not a single mechanical variable. Vertical compliance has been measured many times and the differences between frames and wheels are usually negligible, yet over long distances many riders still report steel frames as less fatiguing.

That suggests we’re dealing with system level effects, damping, frequency response, cumulative vibration, rider posture and neuromuscular fatigue, rather than simple deflection numbers. We may not yet have a clean explanatory model for that, but dismissing rider experience because we can’t fully explain it is a mistake.

This is where the “myth and lore” framing doesn’t really hold up.

A lot of craft knowledge is pre theoretical, not ignorant. Steam engines were built and refined before thermodynamics explained them. Shipbuilders understood hull behaviour before fluid dynamics. Blacksmiths understood heat treatment before phase diagrams. In every case, theory followed practice and formalised observations that were already being made.

Framebuilders were doing the same thing. They weren’t trying to teach materials science. They were developing working heuristics that were fit for purpose.

None of this is an argument against learning theory or doing science. It’s an argument against dismissing empirical, embodied knowledge just because it was expressed in lay terms. Craft knowledge often notices patterns first, and theory catches up later.

That’s really all I’m trying to defend here.

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None of this is an argument against learning theory or doing science. It’s an argument against dismissing empirical, embodied knowledge just because it was expressed in lay terms. Craft knowledge often notices patterns first, and theory catches up later.

Yes, but the material science was all known at the time, just not necessarily by framebuilders. Maybe they learnt some of it by craft knowledge, but maybe some of them also drew incorrect conclusions from their experiences. The democratization of scientific knowledge that the internet has brought is a good thing.

However we are drifting a bit off topic here (my fault). There is a lot of important craft knowledge too, often learned and remembered as “muscle memory”. That’s a lot of why making things is fun. You’re thinking with your hands.

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By experience only, we would still believe that earth is flat and the sun is moving around… :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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If we define our own fixtures, jigs, systems, lug sets, small parts, even tubing is that not also the workmanship of risk? In my mind it’s all a part of the same craft, not a crutch.

If you’re already fluent as heck with your hands and the metal in front of you why would you not then explore systems to further increase efficiency? Or vice versa.

I agree with some of what of what you’re saying but not the way that craft or the craft of making bicycles is being defined. It seems unnecessary to try to separate all of the different ways in which we each craft bicycles.

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I think this is where there’s a persistent misunderstanding. I’m not defining craft myself, and I’m not saying fixtures, jigs, systems, or pre defined parts are a crutch. I’m working within David Pye’s framework, which explicitly treats all of this as a spectrum, not a moral divide.

Pye’s point isn’t that using jigs or systems eliminates workmanship of risk. It’s that they relocate it. Risk doesn’t disappear, but as more of the outcome is stabilised in advance, more of the quality belongs to the system rather than to moment by moment judgement at the bench.

Designing your own fixtures, lug sets, or tubing absolutely involves risk and judgement. That risk just sits earlier in the process. Once those decisions are locked in and repeated, the making itself moves closer to workmanship of certainty, even though skill is still required. That isn’t a criticism, it’s a description.

And yes, if you’re fluent with your hands, of course you might explore systems to increase efficiency. Craftspeople always have. Pye never argues otherwise. The question is not whether systems are used, but where decisive judgement and responsibility sit across the whole process.

What I’m pushing back against isn’t diversity of practice. It’s the idea that we don’t need distinctions at all. If every way of making bicycles is simply called “craft” without reference to structure, risk, and responsibility, then the term stops describing anything meaningful. It becomes a general label rather than an analytical one.

So I’m not trying to separate people, or rank practices, or say one approach is virtuous and another isn’t. I’m trying to keep the language precise enough that it still does work. That precision doesn’t come from me, it comes from an existing body of craft theory that was written precisely to make sense of these differences.

If someone thinks that framework no longer holds, that’s a legitimate discussion. But it’s a discussion with the theory, not with an individual builder’s intentions.

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@guy153

You brought “that story” about Merckx and materials into the conversation.

Can you provide a source?

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You brought “that story” about Merckx and materials into the conversation.

https://www.roadbikereview.com/posts/2931668/

Ellis, thank you for the long and educated conversation. Despite our intellectual disagreement, I genuinely appreciate the rigor you’ve brought to this debate. If you’re at Bespoked in London in April, the first craft beer is on me.

We’re not as far apart as it might seem. I agree that scale, systematization, and process optimization change the nature of work. I agree that fixtures and procedures relocate judgement. I agree that distinguishing craft from manufacturing matters. Where we diverge is on the fundamental definitions themselves, and specifically, on treating Pye and Sennett as making the same argument. They’re not. In fact, they’re opposed on the essentials.

Sennett’s framework, which is central to my PhD research, comes from Hannah Arendt’s distinction between homo faber and animal laborans. Homo faber, the maker, understands and controls the entire domain of work from conception through execution to evaluation. The maker exercises judgement over the complete process, understands materials and constraints, and maintains responsibility for outcomes. Animal laborans, the laborer, is reduced to fragmented tasks without understanding the whole. They execute instructions, repeat procedures, but don’t control design decisions or evaluate long-term consequences.

This is not the same as Pye’s workmanship of risk versus workmanship of certainty. Pye’s framework is narrower, focused on where control resides during physical execution. Hand control equals risk, machine preset equals certainty. But this misses what Sennett and Arendt argue is fundamental, which is scope of judgement and domain control, not execution method.

Here’s where Pye’s framework breaks down. Pye labels traditional hand work as workmanship of risk, implying that risk-taking and uncertainty are central to craft. But traditional craft apprenticeship is built on the opposite: repetition, imitation, adherence to established methods, and incremental refinement within known constraints. That’s not risk. That’s incremental innovation, safe, conservative, validated by tradition. A framebuilder learning traditional brazing isn’t venturing into unknown territory. They’re replicating techniques passed down over generations, following established procedures, working within proven parameters. The execution varies slightly because hands aren’t perfectly consistent, but the approach is deeply risk-averse.

Meanwhile, Pye concepts dismisse digital fabrication as workmanship of certainty, as if precision execution means no judgement, no risk, no craft knowledge. But developing new fabrication systems and processes involves genuine uncertainty, experimental iteration, and real potential for failure. There’s no established tradition guaranteeing success. That’s disruptive innovation, actually risky, not just variable. By Pye’s own logic, if risk defines craft value, then work with new tools should be more craft-worthy than traditional apprenticeship, because it actually involves risk rather than just execution variability within known parameters. But Pye doesn’t go there, because his framework isn’t really about risk. It’s about preserving the legitimacy of traditional methods by mislabeling execution variability as risk while dismissing new approaches as merely mechanical.

Pye’s framing of hand work as inherently risky actually contradicts the learning-by-repetition model he’s supposedly defending. If craft is built on repetition and incremental improvement, then skilled craftspeople aren’t working under constant risk—they’re achieving consistent, predictable outcomes through practiced technique. That’s not risk, that’s developed competence. Meanwhile, his workmanship of certainty assumes tools, whether analog jigs or digital systems, produce perfectly predictable outcomes, which anyone who’s worked with precision tooling knows is false. Tools require calibration, materials vary, environmental conditions affect results, and developing reliable processes with any tool involves extensive trial and error. Pye’s framework creates a false binary where hand equals human equals fallible equals risky, and tool equals machine equals perfect equals certain. Neither half of that equation holds up to scrutiny.

His framework completely breaks down when confronted with mass customization. Pye assumed that customization requires hand control, workmanship of risk, while standardization enables machine control, workmanship of certainty. But digital fabrication tools enable mass customization, producing unique, individually specified objects at scale with precision and reliability. A framebuilder today can produce 200 bespoke frames per year using digital tools, achieving exactly what master framebuilders did historically through hand work. By Pye’s execution method, this is workmanship of certainty. By his customization criterion, it’s workmanship of risk. By actual practice, it’s the same craft activity framebuilders have always done. Pye’s framework can’t accommodate this because it conflates the technological constraints of 1968 with fundamental properties of craft. The mass customization point is devastating because it shows Pye’s framework isn’t just philosophically weak, it’s empirically obsolete. Master framebuilders were always doing mass customization. If digital tools can achieve the same outcome, then either the tools don’t matter, which kills Pye’s framework, or historical framebuilding wasn’t craft, which is absurd.

Sennett’s framework doesn’t have this problem. A framebuilder using digital tools can absolutely be homo faber if they understand materials, geometry, and structural principles, control the design systems that define the frame, make design decisions informed by performance requirements and rider feedback, evaluate outcomes and iterate based on real-world consequences, and maintain responsibility for the complete process from concept to delivery. They’re exercising craft judgement over the entire domain while relocating some execution to tools that provide precision and consistency. This is the bespoke model, maker controls the complete domain: design, fabrication, evaluation, customer relationship, iteration based on outcomes. That’s homo faber, regardless of tools used. Conversely, an apprentice in a traditional workshop who follows instructions without understanding principles, replicates techniques without questioning why, and never sees long-term outcomes is closer to animal laborans despite working by hand. They control execution but don’t understand or control the broader process. This is the industrial model, worker controls only a fragment with no input into design, no feedback from outcomes, no understanding of the whole. That’s animal laborans, whether done by hand or machine.

There’s an underlying assumption in craft theory, drawing from Polanyi’s work on tacit knowledge, that craft judgement is somehow irreducibly tacit, that it can’t be formalized, only transmitted through long apprenticeship and embodied practice. But Polanyi’s famous example, we know how to ride a bicycle but can’t explain the physics, actually undermines this claim. We teach millions of people to ride bicycles efficiently, often in hours or days, without needing to articulate the physics. The tacit knowledge transmits easily through structured practice and feedback. The question isn’t whether craft knowledge contains tacit elements. It does. The question is whether we want to transmit it, and to whom.

When craft knowledge remains purely tacit, never documented or formalized, it serves gatekeeping functions. Formalized knowledge doesn’t eliminate intuition, it makes foundations explicit so learners can develop intuition faster and more systematically. A framebuilder who understands tube geometry principles develops informed intuitions about design. A framebuilder who only replicates what they were shown develops habit, not understanding. Knowledge that cannot be examined, validated, and transmitted isn’t just tacit, it’s gatekept. When today’s economic conditions no longer support long, low-paid apprenticeships, insisting on purely tacit transmission doesn’t preserve craft. It makes craft accessible only to those with the economic privilege to spend years learning without income.

This brings me to my central thesis, which is what I call hybrid craftsmanship. This concept is fully aligned with Sennett’s framework of homo faber. Hybrid craftsmanship means maintaining complete domain control over the framebuilding process while integrating digital tools and formalized knowledge systems that extend rather than replace craft judgement. It’s the convergence of traditional understanding of materials, geometry, and structural principles with contemporary tools that enable precision, documentation, and systematic knowledge transmission. The craftsperson as homo faber doesn’t lose control or understanding by using digital design any more than they lose it by using a micrometer instead of eyeballing measurements. The tools change, the scope of judgement and responsibility remains. Hybrid craftsmanship recognizes that craft knowledge has both tacit and explicit dimensions, and that making the explicit dimensions accessible through formalization doesn’t diminish the tacit dimensions, it accelerates their development. It recognizes that volume matters for judgement formation, which is why B2B production structures remain viable for craft practice, not just for manufacturing. And it recognizes that economic conditions have changed in ways that make purely tacit, purely hand-based transmission models inaccessible to most people who want to learn framebuilding today.

If craft judgement requires exposure to consequences through volume, as you’ve argued and I agree, then B2B production provides the structure for that volume. And if craft knowledge is to be transmitted and preserved rather than dying with individual practitioners, then formalization makes that knowledge accessible and examinable rather than purely tacit and gatekept. Neither of these moves reduces homo faber to animal laborans. They maintain domain control and systematic learning while adapting to economic conditions that no longer support long, low-paid apprenticeships.

I’m doing this work with Sennett’s framework, which I believe is more robust than Pye’s because it doesn’t conflate execution method with scope of judgement. Pye’s framework serves to protect traditional methods by defining craft in terms that exclude innovation. Sennett’s framework asks whether the maker maintains understanding and control over the complete domain of work, which is the question that actually matters for craft preservation. If Pye’s theory fails, it’s because it mislabels conservative incrementalism as risk while dismissing genuine innovation as certainty, and because it privileges execution variability over domain control. Sennett provides the framework that replaces it.

Thanks again for pushing this conversation to definitional bedrock. That’s where the real work happens.

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I remember those RBR threads about framebuilding and materials and have to inject my opinion. There’s so much lore, misinformation, and half-truths in that conversation that I’m at a loss re where to begin. The 753 was a material, not a tube set. Each tube and stay came in a wide selection of gauges, lengths, butt variations, wall thicknesses, and diameters (and cross sections.) Without Scooper narrowing down his repeated generalizations, it’s not possible to use his reminiscences - or that of the other commenters - as evidence of anything.

I’ll add parenthetically that the entire rollout of that material was a bit of a joke. Asking a maker to braze a (as in one) tube to another one and then return it for inspection was folly. Further, granting a certificate to anyone who passed “the test” only served to divide the room. As a side note, there were more than many who used the set in all or some of its variants and used brass rather than the recommended silver alloy, and had no issues.

Back to the link. I’m not buying the veracity of the storyline. But that’s just me.

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What a post. The level of the discussion here is outstanding!

To bring things down to earth and a subtopic we’re discussing here: do you know anything about Reynolds 653? I believe that was basically a front triangle that wasn’t heat-treated (i.e. it was 531) and a rear triangle that was (i.e. 753).

This is very strange, because nowadays we often do the opposite. Many people use 525 for the rear triangle, especially as it may need dimpling or respacing, and the more ductile tubes are easier to do this with, even if they are using heat-treated 853 (or 725) for the main tubes.

Was this really because people thought the non-heat-treated tubes would give a “softer” ride feel? Of course not true. But I think many people do still confuse ductility with stiffness. If a tube is harder to deform plastically in the workshop they think it’s stiffer in the elastic region (it isn’t).

But if that wasn’t the (misguided) motivation for 653, what was? Why would you want a heat-treated rear triangle but not the front triangle?

Back to the link. I’m not buying the veracity of the storyline. But that’s just me.

Yes, it’s not much of a “reference”. Just the opinion of some guy on a forum. But there was the “653 tubeset”, which I’ve just asked @PSantana about in case he can shed any light.

The 653 set was a “dumbed down” ( that’s my characterization and not a catalog phrase) set for the everyman who wanted all the attributes assigned to 753 material without have to do the song and dance in order to get a document of affirmation.

In essence, it was first sold as a compilation of tubes and stays that were “a bit” lighter than the ten typical boxed set of 531.

One has to remember that, in the day, career framebuilders as well as production houses didn’t buy the boxed sets. They selected the material desired and, tube by tube and stay by stay, spec-ed all the lengths and gauges to suit their market demands. When I was at Witcomb USA we would order hundreds of sets at a time, each item designed by us using the available options that Reynolds made and listed in their jobber catalogs.

I wrote about all this, kinda’ sorta’, over a decade ago.

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Very interesting thanks! So even though the stays were heat-treated they waived the requirement for a document of affirmation for that?

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Is this for me? I wouldn’t know. Even 50+ years ago I thought the set (in all its variants) was a joke and never sought to use it. That said, it must be added that materials (regardless of diameters, shapes, wall thicknesses, and whether heat-treated or not) are only a small part of the story. Career framebuilders will know this from repetition and practice, as well as sending out thousands of units into the field. The way a bicycle feels and works is as much (more, in my opinion) a product of the maker’s hand (figuratively, that is) than the pile of stuff that was on his bench. The sequencing. The interference fits. The brazing. The alignment. These are what separates us from the mass producers as well as from each other. The Cremonese luthiers had their varnishes…

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