Forum Governance

[Nick2]

As any space for public discourse develops, there will be a need to be occasionally check-in and make refinements to governing principles. Without occasional updates and rolling changes, rules and norms fail to work well or are simply forgotten. This leads to dissipation or extremism of the polis, tyranny, and overstep by leaders. I am not talking specifically about this forum whatsoever and I am sure you don’t need to look far for an example in your own life!

Here are a few questions that need to be addressed. Please add more.
What is a forum?
What is the purpose of this forum?
Who does it belong to? No one.
What are the expectations for people who participate?
What are expectations for moderators?

Censorship?
This is my pet issue.
I am in favor of rules and norms, and consequences for violating them. I am against almost any censorship.
My faith in this forum was damaged when moderators chose to remove comments that they found objectionable. I would like to see censorship and redaction by anyone but the original poster banned, except in the case of hate speech or fraud, or something close to this. I am not against banning someone for repeated violations of agreed upon rules, but a restrictive filter on speech kills discourse and makes life dull, imo. I have not noticed censorship here since that one incident(but how would I), but it still bothers me that we as a group have not addressed it and proactively stopped it from ever happening again.
It is up to the people who read this forum to cultivate the environment they want. What do you want?

[JMY]

Easy.
It’s already there and you agreed to the following when signing up.

https://forum.customframeforum.com/faq

[Nick2]

It sure is. That moderator clause is a fundamental flaw in a forum if you ask me.

[JMY]

@Nick2

I am in favor of rules and norms

The FAQ section does an excellent job of establishing the rules and norms of the forum.

@Nick2

and consequences for violating them.

The FAQ outlines the consequences for violations as well.

When you see bad behavior, don’t reply. Replying encourages bad behavior by acknowledging it, consumes your energy, and wastes everyone’s time. Just flag it. If enough flags accrue, action will be taken, either automatically or by moderator intervention.
In order to maintain our community, moderators reserve the right to remove any content and any user account for any reason at any time.

The only automatic moderation rules I know of are some filters in place to tackle spam and bots. I’m sure there are a few potential keywords that may throw up a flag for a moderator to review a post before allowing or disallowing it. Standard practice for an online forum where the goal is to keep the discourse civil, productive, and broadly focused on a niche topic.

@Nick2

a restrictive filter on speech kills discourse and makes life dull

Do you know if there is even a restrictive filter on speech in effect here? You have one example of comments being removed. I was not a member of the forum when this happened, or maybe I just missed it (in which case I’m glad I did) - but you have freely admitted to, together with other members of the forum, essentially bullying another member (and respected framebuilder to boot) to the point that they felt it best to leave this place behind.

@Nick2

This form hasn’t been the same since moderators chose to remove valid, but somewhat mean-spirited comments that I and some others made about an infeasible design, after which Walt of Waltworks chose to leave.

@Nick2

I am against almost any censorship.

@Nick2

My faith in this forum was damaged when moderators chose to remove comments that they found objectionable.

If I read this correctly, you’re telling us all that this bullying behaviour should have been left alone, and the self-described “mean-spirited” comments should have been left in place for everyone to see, even though they go against the rules of the forum that you willingly accepted when you became a member?

@Nick2

I am in favor of rules and norms

As long as the rules do not restrict your particular brand of rudeness, I presume?

Here’s the thing.
Allowing any kind of speech and discourse, except for hate speech and fraud (strangely limited list, but whatever), without moderation, will not foster a positive environment. I get that you think positivity can be toxic, but I have a strong feeling that you’re in the minority here. I am, however, open to being proven wrong.

If I wanted to spend my free time sifting through negative, petty and abusive comments, I’d just go to the comments section of any political news story on Facebook…

This is a place I go to for discussion about bike stuff and framebuilding stuff. Bikes are fun, and fabrication is fun. Reading comments from people who want to be able to be rude in the name of “free speech” is not my idea of fun.

It’s hardly a big sacrifice to leave a shitty attitude behind, for the benefit of letting this place be somewhere people can share their work without having to deal with unproductive and downright rude criticism.

[Daniel_Y]

Thanks @JMY I agree.

Communication is hard. Period. It’s especially difficult through text, across cultures, personalities, and different languages.

Moderation exists to keep things smooth and organized; it’s not a personal attack on anyone.

We can have differing opinions, but the key is to maintain a positive outlook, this is all for fun after all.

[Batcountry]

There are so many places for “free speech absolutism” on the internet and elsewhere. Free speech is absolutely necessary, but is this forum really abridging anyone’s freedom by being moderated?

The moderation here has done an admirable job of what in my opinion must be the most difficult part of a venture like this- establishing a welcoming, positive, and productive culture, and I don’t begrudge them for occasionally needing to enforce it how they see fit within the established framework.