Han's soon to be bikes

[Hananas]

Alright, now that I’ve got part of my torch setup and things are getting more real I’ve gathered my thoughts and made a decision for what frame I’ll actually start with.

I’ll start with a traditional lugged upright bike for around town. Reynolds 525 tubing and off the shelf lugs. I’ll keep the 3D printed lugs for once I’ve got the basics down.

Geometry and riding style are inspired by this fished up krusty canal bike!

Also updated to reflect the things I do like about my current Surly Straggler commuter bike.

Frame details (not 100% final):
57cm top tube with a 2° slope
57cm seat tube (C-T)
72° HTA
72.5° STA
430-440mm chainstays (slightly adjustable because semi horizontal dropouts)
38mm tire clearance
Oversize Reynolds 525 tubing
Reynolds 525 fork
1" threaded front end
130mm rear spacing
Caliper rim brakes

Build details (not 100% final)

Generally I’d like to go for the same classy neo-retro vibe as my road bike:

But with probably these lovely lightweight upright comfort bars or something slightly wider

Tektro FL750 levers
Tektro R538 calipers or similar

For wheels I want to use these DT 240S hubs I once sanded down to brushed aluminium

Together with some delightful Sapim D-light spokes, and black DT R460 rims will do fine, I’ll paint the frame high gloss metallic black to tie it in. Maybe just a gold pinstripe on top or something like that to jazz it up a bit.

For gears I might even go with a single downtube shifter for a 1x8 drivetrain! Could use the 600 tricolor derailleur I have laying around and a slightly used cassette to save on cost. Or single speed to keep it super light and simple.

For tires probably Conti contact urban. They’re affordable, pretty comfortable, fast, grippy and have excellent puncture resistance.

Saddle not sure, a black Brooks flyer could fit the classic gentleman’s bike well, but I don’t get along with bike parts that don’t like being used in rain.

A custom fitting rack would be cool but we’ll see.

[Hananas]

A quick doodle in BikeCad gets me this:

I couldn’t find a nice colour in BikeCad of course but I’ll find something really nice for the real life thing.

[bulgie]

@Hananas

1" threaded front end

Haven’t you learned your lesson yet after two steerers failed on you at the threads?

Kidding! I’m still a fan of inch threaded. They last a hundred years if you follow some common-sense precautions. Knowing what you now know, you’ll be fine.

OS steerer on single (not tandem) road bikes is for plastic or alu forks only. I’ll grudgingly admit, OS in steel is worth it for tandems or MTBs.

Keep us posted on your progress!

[Hananas]

@bulgie

I’m still a fan of inch threaded.

Same honestly! I may be too young to know a time when they were standard issue on most bikes, but I think for a classy sleek town or road bike they just have the right feeling / vibe / look.

@bulgie

Knowing what you now know, you’ll be fine.

Hopefully! Fingers crossed, I’ve cursed at plenty of bad threaded setups the past 7 years so hopefully I’ve learned how to make it work now.

@bulgie

Keep us posted on your progress!

Sure will! First gotta continue cleaning the garage to make room for brazing, then finishing up the setup and start practicing with the new torch.

I might even invest in a compressor for a painting setup when the time comes to paint this one… I love painting frames but I don’t like buying so many rattle cans. I also already have a makeshift paint booth in the basement with an extraction fan, and a nice NOS spray gun my former / first employer gifted me. Plus I would absolutely love being able to mix my own colours

[Duanedr]

@Hananas

I’ll start with a traditional lugged upright bike for around town. Reynolds 525 tubing and off the shelf lugs. I’ll keep the 3D printed lugs for once I’ve got the basics down.

This is a wise choice. I am always amazed at how many first time builders take on super complex full suspension bikes as their first try. Maybe they are already accomplished fabricators but it seems a bold move either way.

[Hananas]

Well I thought I might as well take the advice of you guys.

Plus, honestly realistically speaking I’m going to love a simple comfortable upright bike made with my own two hands so much more than anything really fancy.
I fell in love with simple comfortable steel city bikes from the moment I did my first restomod when I was 18 and needed a bike to get around as a student, one that was nice to ride but had little value to thieves and man I wanted to build my own fresh version of a vintage frame ever since.
That was 7 years ago which feels long to me but probably sounds like yesterday to all the older guys here.
I hope this build goes well because this is the kind of bike I’ll never stop loving. I still have the frame of that first restomod but it’s a basic straight gauge frame with stamped dropouts and needs to be repaired.
It’ll forever have a special place in my heart though, just like my blue road bike which introduced me to the world of quality steel frames and tubesets.

[markbeaver]

If you haven’t already had some practice brazing lugs, I’d strongly suggest getting two or three inexpensive lug sets and practicing brazing them then hacksawing them apart to see how good your braze penetration is. You might be able to pick up some inexpensive 0.9mm straight gauge tubing to use, in the correct diameters. It’s a valuable learning experience developing flame control and heat control before you start using the real stuff. You mention that you’re in the EU, well since Brexit Ceeway no longer is, but they sell a couple of inexpensive starter kits, see Tube and Parts Bundle. If you haven’t seen this before. Enjoy your nnew adventures!

[Hananas]

I’ve decided how I’m gonna make the black rims work! I’ll paint the bike high gloss black, to make it a classy classic style city bike.
I also have some sleek gloss black lightweight fenders, should all be excellent to make a fully featured (fenders & rack) yet relatively very light city bike. The kind of bike no one really bats an eye at unless they know or pick it up.

Still gotta have some patience before I can order lugs and tubing to practice with. First going on a 2 week bike touring holiday along the Danube river in a couple weeks. Gotta see how much spare cash I can comfortably throw at tubing & lugs after that.

Oh and I looked into compressors for painting setups and dang nevermind those paint guns need some serious flow! Although I saw that there are small paint guns which might be perfect for doing frames and those are a lot more reasonable in flow requirements. Either way this frame will probably just get a rattlecan job like my others, unless it takes really really long to build. (Which it might, who knows)

[Hananas]

When ordering lugs, how close do the angles have to match with what I need for my geometry? Do they need to be within 1 degree or less or more?

[Restless]

Within one degree - manipulating lug angles is not easy especially on your first frame

[bulgie]

You have more leeway if using old-style lugs made by wrapping sheetmetal around and welding it, or by bulge-forming (similar result). These have an air gap inside at the crotch, and can be bent pretty far using bending bars. Modern investment-cast lugs have almost no leeway.

With any lug (cast or sheetmetal), you can cut a slice out of it at the crotch, bend to close up the cut, and weld (or fillet braze) to add back strength and hide where you cut it. That’s enough work that most people would just skip the lugs and just weld or braze the frame lugless. But if you’re building for fun, not trying to make money — or if you’re an artist being true to your vision — then feel free to spend more time modding the lugs than most people spend on a whole frame. There’s a long history of that.

Here’s a fave of mine, a '90s Glenn Erickson, grainy pic 'cuz it’s from Buycycling magazine:

[Hananas]

I’ll certainly be building just as a hobby and creative outlet, so I definitely want to have a go at custom lugs eventually but for my first frame it’ll probably be best if I stick with a set of decent cast lugs without modifications.

I’ll have to see if I can build the geo I want with lugs I can find, I’ll make something work either way.

[Hananas]

Slightly off topic but currently on bike holiday along the Danube river in Austria and after 3 days and 240km, I have lots of thoughts on geometry for touring.

Currently have a Surly Straggler 700C size 56 as a commuter and touring bike.

Thought one:
It’s not quite stiff enough to comfortably carry the 24kg of stuff I have on it now. A snap of stand-up power in the pedals or a flick of the bars makes it wobble.

Thought two:
The front end is too damn low! F*ck my wrists, too much pressure on them at low power like I’m doing here cruising a whole day with the girlfriend.

Thought three:
I really, really want a rear kickstand. Having to find stuff to lean it against all the time gets really old really quickly.

Thought four:
Other than that, this setup rocks. The geometry has great handling, the bike has plenty of room for all my stuff, Shimano MT201’s on 180mm rotors and 2-finger operation have all the power and control I desire, 38/11-42 is an excellent gear range, 38mm Panaracer Paselas are perfect.

If this first city bike works out well, I already know the next bike I want to build, a touring bike based off this geometry but with double oversize tubing and a slightly sloping TT! And a kickstand mount.

[Hananas]

Can anyone tell me if Reynolds 525 27.5x20 oval fork blades will fit in a traditional 28x19 fork crown with a little squishing in a vice with wooden blocks?

I want to buy some tubes and lugs to practice with but I’d like to also buy my whole tubeset at once as well to minimise on shipping so I want to figure out whether I can get all my tubes from Reynolds and all my lugs from Ceeway or framebuilder supply.
Can’t find any 27.5x20 fork crowns so if they won’t fit I guess I’ll have to get the more expensive 28x19 Columbus blades.

[Hananas]

And is it possible to braze these or are they only for welding?

Complete horizontal modular dropout set - with/without eyelets

[Duanedr]

I have brazed them. If you’re using a fixture, you’ll want to get 2 sets of the inserts. Even tacking them with the alum inserts will damage the anodizing. Get a set for making and another for riding.

[Hananas]

Would it be worth it to get a pair of lasercut steel dummy inserts with a straight top edge to get them aligned?

[Duanedr]

if you’re doing a lot of them or if you have access to cheap lazer cutting it might. You may also be able to find enough others who want them to make it reasonable to produce a dozen sets.

[Hananas]

What’s generally a better strategy? Ordering just the tubes I know I’ll need for this one or also while I’m ordering, order those I think I’ll need for my next project?

I already placed my order for the main tubes and chainstays at Reynolds, but I’m now going to order some plain tubes from biketubing.com because I want the skinny 12.7mm seatstays.

Just ordering a pair of 12.7mm tubes feels a bit stupid, so I was thinking I could also order a couple of 22.2x1.2 tubes as well, which I want to use as chainstays for a belt drive touring bike. My current frame works but the geometry is pretty uncomfortable and I’d love to replace the frame with one of my own making.

[Spencermon]

@Hananas

biketubing.com

Always buy more tubing. haha. I’ve got 5-6 bikes worth of main tubes and seat stays. Then it’s just chain stays to suit whatever I’m planning. But maybe that’s not the best idea either. Its kinda addicting.