I really enjoy building bikes as a hobby. For the last three years I have built one in the winter when I couldn’t ride as much and enjoyed it. However, building bikes is expensive and I can’t really justify the expenses every year. Is there a scenario where I build a bike and sell it just to cover materials? I don’t want to start a business or do it full time or anything. Could it be a raffle and anything above cost goes to a non-profit? Should I bully my friends into letting me build bikes for them? I wouldn’t want to pay for insurance so I assume if anyone buys a bike they would have to sign a waiver or something. Is this ridiculous and naive? Should I just get a side hustle to fund this instead and fill a garage with bikes over the years? Also, I am not skilled enough right now to really consider building for other people but I could see myself getting there eventually so I’m not looking to solve this immediately. All thoughts and input are welcome.
My understanding is that it all depends on what kind of risk you are comfortable with. I build for myself and my wife only because I am not interested in carrying insurance for years because I sold a few frames. What I have read here makes it seem prohibitively expensive for the hobbyist. No matter how good of friends I may be with someone, I am not friends with their insurers.
I started my brand 13 years ago, and I’ve been doing it full-time for the last 11 years in one of the most expensive cities in the country—Los Angeles.
I didn’t have rich parents or a wealthy spouse backing me. Everything I’ve built came from sweat equity, one step at a time. Looking back, I can honestly say I’m happy with both my company and the life I’ve built. I feel like I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be, and I don’t know how many people can honestly say that.
Over the years I’ve watched a lot of builders and brands come and go—many of them far more talented than I am. Talent matters, but it isn’t everything.
Here are a few things I’ve learned along the way:
• Don’t quit your day job too early. Keep your regular income until you’re so busy building bikes that your job is actually limiting your earning potential. Even then, having a steady part-time source of income can take a lot of pressure off.
• Don’t say yes to every customer. Every project should be a win-win. Charge enough to make a profit on every bike you build. Selling bikes at cost just to make people happy is one of the fastest ways to burn out and start resenting a profession that’s supposed to be enjoyable.
• Not every customer is your customer. It’s better to walk away from a difficult client than spend months trying to make an impossible person happy. Custom bikes are a luxury, and luxuries aren’t for everyone. If someone genuinely loves your work but can’t afford it, maybe offer a payment plan. But if they’re disrespectful or constantly creating problems, it’s okay to tell them they’re better off buying a Specialized or something else off the shelf. Learn to spot those red flags early.
• Your reputation is everything. Underpromise and overdeliver. It’s still the best marketing strategy I’ve found. Be someone people enjoy working with.
• Make yourself easy to find. Have an Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube channel, and a website. Whether you like it or not, you’re not just a frame builder anymore—you’re also a marketer.
• Treat it like a real business. Set up an LLC, get liability insurance, apply for an EIN, get your reseller’s permit, and start opening OEM accounts. Some are easy to get, others take years to earn. Once you have them, try selling complete bikes instead of just framesets. Sometimes the frame won’t be where you make your money—the components will. Most customers would rather buy a complete bike from the builder anyway, unless they’re bike shop employees or the kind of bike nerd who already has a garage full of parts.
• Avoid debt whenever possible. Sell equipment, work another job, simplify your lifestyle—do whatever you have to do before borrowing money. Don’t assume your future self will have more time, more energy, or fewer problems. If you’re stressed now, debt usually makes it worse.
I could probably write a lot more about this. Thirteen years of mistakes, lessons, and small wins have taught me quite a bit. If people are interested, I’d be happy to dive deeper into any of these topics and share more of what I’ve learned.
Hope this helps.
Maybe the most important lesson: DON’T TAKE BUSINESS ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T RUN A BUSINESS.
I suspect many of us are in a similar situation. Selling bikes at cost as a hobby is actually probably a better business model than trying to feed your family with it. Yes bully your friends 
A good way to keep costs low is to replace broken or poor quality frames. Two of my early builds were like this: nearly all the parts on each came off some other bike.
Buy / get liability insurance.
Register your entity with municipal and state authorities.
Practice, and then continue practicing.
Or get the training necessary to let others ride the vehicles you want to make.
I’m in the same boat. Just building for myself, just trying to get more variety. Last bike was a travel bike with ritchey couplers. Next bike will either be an expedition bike or a lamplighter. The trouble is figuring out which bike you retire when I build new ones. Also I’ve branched out and make bags for my bikes and stems.
I doubt I could go into business doing it. Premium prices are required just to sustain a living, but then customers deserve a premium experience.
As usual Richard has the guts of the situation down. “Selling” for less. or even zero, won’t relieve yourself of the liability that you’ve decided to accept when building for others. Many think liability insurance is for self protection, guard whatever assets you have if you should be sued. It was Richard that pointed out to me (and the world, in a forum post) years ago that insurance is to help make the unfortunate victim whole again, or as whole as money can…
I’ll also give a wordy thumbs up to hern’s comments. In the LBS world the sad joke is that to be successful one needs a “spouse” that is the bread earner and has the medical and 401K coverage:) Andy.
+1 for insurance. Repairs can be a good way to also make money. I’ve added cantilever posts to 5 or 6 framesets this year alone.
Draper Cycles
Bringing Back the Rim Brake Since 2026!
Thanks everyone for the all the input!
+1 for insurance AND setting up an actual, legal business as e-Richey says. Too many times I’ve heard builders say things like “my customers won’t sue me - they’re my friends” or “I’m only giving away my frames so I don’t need insurance” or “I have my customers sign a waiver saying they won’t sue me.” The sad truth is that, if something bad happens and someone is injured or worse, it’s not likely the actual rider will sue you. It’ll be the rider’s spouse, their parents, or their medical insurance company, or even another rider’s insurance company - all trying to recoup their costs for paying medical expenses or other losses. Put simply, one cannot sign away someone else’s right to sue. Doesn’t matter if the bike was donated or it got passed along to someone else. It might not even be related to the person riding your frame. Maybe it was a group ride with stupid behavior and somehow your bike was in the pile-up. Those with out of pocket expenses are going to look for someone to make them whole again. This sucks, but it’s the system we live it. If you’re sued and you’re not a business with insurance, they’re going to come after you, personally. Got a house, income or savings? All can be “attached.” The best money you might spend is an hour with a lawyer to help you set up the business and learn about separating your finances, getting insurance, etc. I hope you’ll never be glad you did this, but the consequences of not doing it could change your life, and not for the better.
What AlexM said above.
I’m not sure when the boundaries were widened, or simply discarded, such that people can assume that assembling a vehicle that another would use doesn’t come with a responsibility as well as consequences. When one disregards this, it affects all of us.
Framebuilding is a trade and, as is the case with other professions, it demands training, and repetition, and practice. It’s not a craft, or one of the decorative arts - unless one simply wants to stay in the basement and make something that only he might assemble and pedal.
Unfortunately insurance costs have gotten so high that it’s hard to sell bikes as a hobby. I have a shop full of bikes that I built for myself and preferences that have changed over the last 20 years. The combination takes up a lot of space. I’m pretty close to turning a couple of my bikes into wall art to make room for new designs.
When you first start, you only have some tools and, most importantly, no customers. Your insurance policy might only be $20 a month. Insurance costs probably won’t keep you from wanting to take this to the next level. I think the harder part is finding customers who are willing to pay for your work.
For that, you have to get out there and get your work in front of people. MADE is great, but it’s a lot of money. If you make something truly remarkable, though, you can get a lot of press from it. If you want to do it on the cheap and stay local, have a booth at local events.
You make road bikes? Have a booth at the local crit. You make nice city bikes or cargo bikes? Have a booth at your local farmers market. Who shops at farmers markets? People who have the spare time and income to go out of their way to buy something locally grown and support people in their community.
Posting stuff here is cool, but you’re mostly preaching to the choir. It’s a great place to get peer feedback, but it’s not necessarily a place to find customers.
The other thing is that being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. In order to be successful, you really have to be determined to make it work. I spend about 50% of my time managing the business: answering emails, catching up on QuickBooks, tracking parts for a customer, reminding customers that they owe me money, paying bills, etc.
It is very stressful, but it’s also extremely rewarding when things are going right. This is an industry famous for not making much money, so don’t be surprised to find out that some of your favorite builders have “real” jobs on the side because they don’t have enough orders to do this full-time or make enough to support their lifestyle.
Maybe you just want to make things. You might be completely happy working for someone else and doing your craft. Maybe that’s how you build a name for yourself, and then eventually start making your own stuff for other people.
Great answer, but felt like it was worth chiming in as I just went through this- at least in the US, I was unable to find a real amount ($1M) of product liability insurance for a bicycle frame business for less than $1700/year. I had started under the same assumption as above, that if i was only trying to make a couple frames, test the waters, etc, that it would be very cheap, but it was not my experience. It was a big jump to be able to start making frames, and furthermore, I now have an obligation to those that buy my frames to maintain that insurance for years, as the liability policies are written such that the claim goes against the insurance you CURRENTLY have when a claim is made, not when the bike was sold.
This isn’t to dissuade anyone so much as to give my experience as someone who was in this exact boat last year. It’s a big step going from building for yourself to building for others, but for me it was worth it just to be able to say I tried it. Keeping your other overhead super low to the point that insurance is your primary expense as a business seems crucial.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think the best solution for my situation is probably to just ask for a raise or get a side gig and just fill a shed full of bikes over the years and make wall art of the ones I don’t want to hang parts on. Good information about all the ins and outs of making a living fabbing bikes though! Definitely a lot more goes into it than simply making a frame.