Thanks to @normaali for calling this out on this thread: OFXD builds (Scandinavian design) - #2 by normaali
I was wondering if its worthwhile to update the Syntace hanger spec. I know this is not a Paragon problem, it’s a Syntace and bike industry problem From what I understand the X12 typ1 system was designed >8 years ago for mountain bikes. As is, it is out of Shimano MTB derailleur spec (unless I am misunderstanding something).
From my experience, having the derailleur mounted further away won’t stop the bike from shifting, but it does make the shifting a bit slower and less direct.
In all the years we’ve been offering Syntace-compatible parts, we’ve had almost no comments about derailleur issues, even on road bikes. The dropout can be aligned level, or parallel to the DO/BB CL; it doesn’t seem to be a problem. Although Shimano and SRAM both publish hanger specs, in the real world derailleurs are very tolerant of being out of the ideal position.
It may be as Daniel says:
The Syntace hanger is probably as long as it is because of the space required by the M8 mounting bolt encroaching on the space available from above. There may not be enough room to hit the ideal dimensions.
This is also the first generation spec, there are are two later versions that I haven’t looked at closely enough to comment.
@Daniel_Y Syntace seems to have updated the Typ1 hanger.
There is a shorter version available on their website. According to Syntace this one is for use with all 10/11/12 speed derailleurs. The longer one, which I mostly see around, is apparently discontinued.
Here is a link to the PDF:
Does anyone have the measurements for the shorter Typ1 hanger?
I have heard complaints (shifting performance) about the Syntace System. If I remember correctly, in combination with SRAM road derailleurs. But I have no idea how justified they are…
This seems counter-intuitive; the hanger that SRAM specs with their 51/52 tooth cassettes is actually longer than the standard Syntace hanger. I believe the reasoning is that as cogs get bigger, the derailleur needs to move further away from axle center. Of course, that doesn’t make sense when you think about where the derailleur needs to be for a 10 tooth cog.
Apologies @mark_pmw for not addressing you directly. I came here through the search function and didn’t realize that I was in a PMW specific subsection of the forum
@Benjamin thanks for posting that update!
I think @benjamin was referring to road groupsets. I have heard of an instance where a custom bike was RMA’ed because of poor shifting with a syntace hanger. It was with a 12s Campy groupset, which seems to have a reputation for finicky shifting. No idea if this was a mechanic issue, campy issue, or syntace issue. I think the syntace hanger being out of “modern” spec probably does not help.
@Daniel_Y yes, I was referring to road groupsets
I borrowed a shorter Typ1 syntace hanger from a friend and this is what I measured: 31,5 mm center to center (L) and 7 mm back (X).
We can make a 31.5 mm Syntace hanger, as long as there’s a demand. @Benjamin Have you had a hard time sourcing this hanger? Sounds like it, if you had to borrow one. A bigger question is if UDH is going to make everything else obsolete. We do have an eccentric UDH dropout available now in titanium, soon in steel, so the functionality of the Syntace offset can be used with UDH. The big downside is that UDH dropouts are pretty clunky looking on a steel frame, particularly with tapered stays.
We got some of these in the shop today. So good, Mark. Can’t wait to use them. We’ll have a bike at MADE with them on it.
Hey Mark, I live in Germany and I think I could have easily ordered the hanger from Syntace.
I have been looking into the whole syntace hanger thing for someone else who couldn’t get his bike to shift properly. I just wanted to see if the shorter hanger is close to Shimanos and SRAMs specs, that’s why I borrowed one instead of buying
As you mentioned above, I think the M8 mounting bolt prevents it from being ideal.
I would LOVE to get my hands on the shorter hanger. I’ve personally never had a problem with any of my bikes that use Syntace but I recently posted something about the possibility of a shorter hanger from them, specifially with Campy. It seems however that all 3 of the main groupset makers all recommend a 24-28mm hanger length.