I echo running faster. Use a little coolant if you have too. Another one is get carbide tipped hole saws and put them in the lathe skim the mating surface then with the arbor installed machine the arbor down so its a dead straight shank. That way the hole saw runs perfectly round and far less likely to snag and chatter in the thinner stuff.
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Honestly, I felt like that TWITS support tubing was the game changer that made it possible for me to notch thinner tubes.
Lon Kennedy at Nova cycles told me that a cheaper thing that a few builders have done with tube notchers on thin tubes is to fill like 2” of the end of the tube with Bondo… I think he said it was Bondo, but can’t really remember. The Bondo adds support to the inside of the tube. No tearing off a chunk of tube when using the tube notcher! I never tried this, but Lon said that it works. You just have to contend with cleanly getting the dried Bondo out of the inside of the tube when you are done. If I’m not mistaken, he said to coat the inside of the tube area where the Bondo goes with some chemical so that the Bondo will release easily. I don’t remember the details. I think it was Vaseline or something. Lon is a really helpful guy. He’ll tell you way more if you are interested. I try to support his business whenever I can because he’s always willing to share advice. He has nice BB shells.
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Lon no longer runs Nova
It’s not bondo. It’s cerrobend. And it’s a BAD BAD IDEA.
It’s very hard to remove and it’s super toxic if you braze or weld the tube with any of it left.
I mean, bondo would be terrible too (and wouldn’t save your tube from getting ripped apart) but cerrobend is gnarly stuff.
If you are trying to miter super thin tubes on a cheap notcher, you need to rethink your plan. Either use beefier/softer tubing, or else get a better mitering setup.
-Walt
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Just FYI, .035" = .9mm (or .89mm if you want to be neurotic about it).
And you can miter .035"/.9mm 4130 just fine with all sorts of stuff. That’s the base level bread and butter tubing of entry level frame building.
-Walt
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Any good notching template calculators you could recommend?
Did someone show a video of how to do this in fusion?
Edit: found it Fusion 360 - Unfolding Sheet Metal Tubing Update - YouTube
This thread is exactly where I’m at! Need easy cuts to practice TIG
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Oh. I didn’t know that. Lon was a super helpful guy. It’s been a long time since I’ve talked to him. I know that he was wanting to retire many years ago. Hopefully, he is well.
The Bondo or Cerrobend idea was what Lon had told me about. You tried it Walt and it didn’t work well? I haven’t actually done that. I’ve heard of it being hard to clean out. It’s not the best choice for sure. Just what I heard was doable if the right precautions (release agent + cleaning) were done appropriately. I’ve used a TWITS outer sleeve device which worked ok. No snagging with that.
I’ve found a pretty decent parametric fusion model for making miter templates. Will post tomorrow. Wanted to work on it so it can take tapered tubes etc but will upload what I’ve got tomorrow.
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Rattlecad does an excellent job of creating a shop drawing and mitre templates.
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I think this thread has convinced me to add a 2Dish printer to the toolbox. Quick tangent, I find it hilarious that people complain about how finicky their 3D printers are when my paper printer at work causes me way more trouble!
I saw some of the stuff in that thread including your jigger table design. Part of my reasoning for wanting this tool is the possibility of modifying it to work with a tooling plate like your design further down the road if it makes sense, should help with rigidity.
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Perfect, this is exactly what I was hoping for! My harbor freight files have served their purpose but I think it’s time to diversify!
Oh, it’ll work (cerrobend, I have never tried bondo and can’t imagine doing that) for both bending and cutting thinwall stuff. But it will be much faster, not to mention less dangerous, to just file the miters.
The stuff has it’s uses. But mitering bike tubes for amateur (or “pro”) framebuilders isn’t one of them.
-Walt
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I have the sync notcher with a low speed drill and good hole saws and it works very well. I did all sorts of tubing even Columbus xcr and reynolds 853.
The best is I can store this under the work bench.
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Sounds like exactly what i need right now, thanks!
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Couple thoughts I’ve been trying to sort out:
The tube notchers listed on this forum: Chicago, grizzly, etc. Are about $400usd ($545.30 cad 
) but I have seen lathes for sale from $500-$1000 cad.
Tube notchers:
Pros:
- small space
- small cost? Would anyone use a cheap harbor freight sub $200 tube notchers?
- faster than filing
Cons:
- resale value as you grow/upgrade/move on to other hobbies?
- requires tinkering to get rigid setup
- grizzly, Chicago, etc. seem actually like a higher cost for the (Canadian) beginner
Lathe:
Pros:
- rigid (I have seen and heard people using quite small lathes with success: 9", mini-lathes?)
- potential for other work besides mitering
- holds value both resale and towards other fabrication down the road
Cons:
- large space
- old machines will require some work
- tool/tube holding is still needed
- cost is also relatively high for the beginner budget
I think lathes are cool but don’t want to get in too deep if I don’t have to. But these notchers don’t seem like too far away from the cost of a used lathe.
Thoughts?
Startup cost/list of tools with links might be a useful topic at some point:
- frame fixture sub $1000
- tig welder/brazing kit $400-1000
- mitering setup files $100, notchers $400, lathe $500+
Also here is a picture of an old lathe for sale near me for $500 without a tailstock.
Love this discussion. Thanks everybody
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I’d get a lathe without hesitation first. The extra ability and capacity it gives you far surpasses the initial cost of it and you guys get them cheap in the US. I paid Aus$7500 for my last one and I use it everyday I’m in the work shop from frame parts to making jigs and tools for building.
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If you have the money and space for a lathe, go that way.
Otherwise, KMS is currently running a sale on their JD2 style tube notchers.
$300 cad
$200 cad
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In the us a decent lathe starts at around $2k. But if you can find one for $500 and have the space, do it!
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Machine pricing in the US is highly regional. Friends like Drew at Engin (Philadelphia) and now Eva at Liberation (Pittsburgh) find stuff for half the price of what it would be in Seattle, and with a lot more selection.
Sometimes you get lucky. I got my Emco 10” lathe for $1200 in Seattle because the seller was moving in 5 days and just needed it gone.
$2k is probably the normal floor for a lathe in Seattle that can fit a steerer tube into the headstock (a very useful feature if you build forks).
If the OP lives in the land of cheap lathes I would get one for sure. Find one with the most tooling that you can, finding a tailstock for a 50 year old lathe is no fun. If space is tight also be picky about footprint, I moved from a South Bend 9A to my Emco Compact 10 because it takes less than half the floor space with similar capabilities (and fits steerers in the headstock). I’m putting stuff back together for making frames and intend to miter on my lathe.
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I’ll jump on the buy a lathe train. They have so many uses around the house or shop outside of Framebuilding.
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