Thinking of going pro? Read this first

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Sound great commenst there.

“Successful “framebuilders” sell titanium gravel bikes with fancy finishes, because that is what the consumer wants. That does not lead to designs, better fits, new voices.”

This speaks to a lot of the market and where each of us sit in it. It’s something I think about constantly and have wondered whether going down the Ti frame route is a smart move. Only problem is I can’t/don’t do TIG welding, so it means a huge learning curve. Plus, there are so many Ti builders now that I feel I’d get lost in the sea and be just another Ti frame builder. The lastest wave of enthusiast, especially in teh gravel scene, all love the idea of a Titanium frame and a lot of the old urban myths about steel still pervade the narrative.There is also the dilution of the brand and what it is recognised for.

I think trying to stand out and make a statement drives a lot of us in the community. We all want to be known for making awesomes bikes. I do see some builders going down the “innovative” route trying to be out of the box purely for doing something different. I’m sure they learn a lot doing it but the market also is wary of “whacky” designs. They don’t trust it unless the big brands come out with it or market the idea. But then making understated but really well made and handling bikes also won’t get you noticed and is more of a slow burn in gaining the recognition and the following/sales.

One thing that does help is having financial resources to build a ton of bikes up front, get them to mags/websites for reviews. Having demo bikes, Going to events. Having a couple of the top local racers on your bikes. All the stuff that bootstrapping doesn’t really allow you to do.

Anyway, just some thoughts before I sit at my desk for the day job. :crazy_face:

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100% agreed. It would be a shame if everyone was trying to make high-end Ti drop bar bikes. Even though the math problem is theoretically easier to solve in that part of the market, there are so many established builders working at such a high level that in practice I don’t think success is really much easier to achieve.

A while back I tried to determine how many new builders in the last 10 years had met these criteria, which I think are required for some degree of financial success:

  • 30+ frames per year for multiple years, with a decent split of complete builds
  • Owner/operator initially does all the fabrication work

The number I arrived at was fewer than five. I could definitely be missing some success stories, and those criteria may not be everyone’s idea of making it, but that made the challenge especially stark for me for some reason. And the folks I did identify would mostly be classified as world-class talents, like truly exceptional at one or more components of the framebuilding business.

I think it is interesting how the idea of commercialization pervades so many discussions about framebuilding. Maybe it is the old timers always talking about how hard it is, or the inherent financial precarity for those making a go of it, or all the hobbyists like me who pull out the “profit.xlsx” spreadsheet when they have a bad day at work, but it kind of underlies the whole endeavor in a weird way.

Maybe commercial success shouldn’t be the end goal for most people? Maybe that would marginalize the whole thing to hobbyists, which I don’t think would be good, but magical thinking about passion projects mostly leads to frustration and burn out.

I personally don’t have much issue with the industry using framebuilders to promote products. This is probably because I am not in the business, but I see it as a viable way to grow the size of the pie down the road. Something like:

Framebuilders innovate a new category → mainstream companies grow the category, do all the storytelling an marketing (framebuilders generally are pretty bad at this) → the category is eventually big enough that a high-end niche develops, which framebuilders can capitalize on.

Maybe that’s my own form of magical thinking, but like I said in my post a few days ago, I think framebuilders generally overestimate how much attention the general cycling public pays to their part of the world.

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For some big picture perspective:

  • 90% of all startups fail, and about 20% fail in the first year.
  • For all businesses, the failure rate is 50% by year 5, 70% by year 10.
  • Only 1 in 12 entrepreneurs ever succeed in building a successful business.
  • Top reasons startups fail:
    • 38% run out of cash
    • 35% no market (overestimated customer base)
    • 20% competition
    • 10% timing
    • There are way more reasons, and often more than one apply
  • The average startup takes 4 years to become profitable

The failure rate tends to be even higher for creative/maker businesses. I attribute this to a lot of makers having an “if I build it, they will come” approach, making the assumption that having an amazing or unique or high-quality product will be enough to establish the customer base. There are some rare cases of that happening. Those stories become glorified by others trying to get into the same business, but those scenarios are the exception, not the normal (and there’s usually more behind the scenes that helped them survive).

But this also mean there is always a chance to succeed! I’ve helped a lot of businesses get over the 5 year hump and now the owners are living their dreams! If you’re going to go for it, go in with a plan to do ALL the work needed, remove as much reliance in luck as possible, and have a plan to weather the ups and downs. And if you don’t make it, at least you tried, and you will probably have a much better chance at succeeding when you try the second time.

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Thanks for that context! I have dreamed about making money building bikes since I was 11 or 12, so if I’m talking to anyone about magical thinking and low success rates it is mostly myself. Definitely not trying to be the person dissuading anyone.

I’ll also say that those people meeting my “success criteria” happen to be the ones who have done the most thoughtful product design and made the most focused business decisions, at least in my opinion. So with that in mind maybe the odds aren’t too bad.

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Totally. I suppose the point I was trying to make from all of that is: its not any harder to succeed as a framebuilder then it is at any other business. And point #2 is that it takes more than just having a great product. Just think of all the restaurants that go out of business despite having amazing food.

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I would like to chime in with my perspective as a person who’s been trying to find my way as a professional framebuilder for the past 2 years.

To be clear: I’m anti-capitalist. This is really important to me and is among other values a driving factor to a lot of my decisions in life.
It also makes it a little complicated to run a business.

While doing my best to work against capitalism I also acknowledge that I live in a capitalist society and I need food on the table and a place to live to be able to do so.

For the past 2 years I’ve had my own workshop where I build frames. I’ve been doing small jobs now and then not related to framebuilding to make a living the first 1.5 years and I’m now having a 16 hour/week job that pays the bills, which means I’m not dependent on the framebuilding work to pay.
This has been made possible by a couple of different factors, but they can all be summed up to keeping my monthly bills to a minimum.

My 28m2 workshop is situated in a self-owned community house and I pay my rent by keeping track of the house’s economy. It takes a bit of my time, but it also helps me get better at keeping track of my own economy.

In my personal life I do what I can to live with few expenses. Like dumpster diving foods and generally choosing to live simple.
It also motivates me to do this as one of the biggest issues regarding climate change is overproduction and -consumption (capitalism at it again). Which could lead to a lot of words about what I think the mainstream bike industry is failing to solve, but I’ll spare you this time.

Capitalism wants us to work a lot, work fast, sell shit and make money. As Mark Zuckerberg puts it: “move fast and break things”.
This is my antithesis.

I want to: “move slow and fix things”.

My goal from the beginning has been to be able to build things up slowly. Not only do I have skills to learn and it takes time. But I also need to be able to take care of my self to not burn out, which will for sure make me go out of business!
This means I need time to do community work, to be with my partner, to hang out with friends and go bird watching. To relax in a couch with a book.
And of course to go ride my bike(s)!!

The Starfish Bicycles slogan is: “Soft bikes for soft people”. Being a soft to me means taking care of yourself, your local community and the planet. (that’s the really short version).

I need my brand to stay true to my personal values otherwise I might as well get a permanent job that with a paycheck at the end of each month… This means that I do take decisions out of passion. And it might not be the best decisions from a capitalist point of view, but from where I’m looking at the world this way makes much more sense.

I see a lot of companies, not just in this industry, not taking a stance on political subjects. This just leads to status-quo, which is also just as political!
So for me it makes sense to be political, but working towards my own values. This is a more honest way of doing business to me.

According to @HomageFrameworks numbers I’m at least doing better than 20% of start-ups at surviving and still got 2 more years to make this a profitable business…

So to conclude on my last 2 years in business: Have I made any money? No. Have i learned 1 million things? Yes. Am I still in business? Yes.

Sorry if this is kind of pointing in a bunch of different directions. I’m honestly a little nervous posting this, so I hope anyone reading can get something out of it :brown_heart: :purple_heart: xo Tore

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This resonates with me on so many different levels!
I find it very inspiring to see someone with a similar view on “things” manage their way successfully. It gives me hope that I may succeed as well at some point :wink:

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Living a life that provides you satisfaction, operates within your belief system, and serves as an example of the change you want to see. Everyone will have their own definition of what those things are, it sounds like you have a strong understanding of what they are for you. That’s something to be proud of.

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Birdwatching and bikes :heart:

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