WHAT I THINK I KNOW about Titanium welding:
- Discoloration is a sign of oxidization (titanium reaction with oxygen, this reaction creates different colors at different temperatures). This oxidization makes the titanium brittle and decreases it’s strength.
- A perfect titanium weld has no discoloration anywhere. Example: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/561964859765697230/
- Ideally the weld bead should be shiny silver. Second best would be a straw colored weld.
- Discoloration of the weld bead is worst. Discoloration beyond the HAZ is not great but acceptable. Discoloration in the HAZ is also bad (but I don’t how how bad).
WHAT I SEE OUT THERE: People/Companies showing off their mediocre quality welds if judged by the criteria listed above:
Bicycle Fabrication | Made in USA Framebuilding | Chumba USA Is this actually titanium?
Post Mount! | Haven't done one of these with a bridge in qui… | Flickr Is this actually titanium?
https://images.app.goo.gl/6x4xFXd4gtjTnwvq8 This is definitely Titanium, straw colored weld beads.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/848858229738875578/ This is definitely Titanium, with blue coloring in the HAZ.
Titancycles on Instagram: "What hell of a bb shell" This is definitely Titanium.
Hmmm 
So…
- Is what I learned (first paragraph) wrong? Or do these companies produce mediocre quality welds (and advertise them)?
- Is it possible to restore the full strength and ductility of the welded titanium (incl. for the weld bead) by removing the oxidization layer for example by sand blasting? In other words is the brittleness and loss of strength only happening at the surface of the titanium?
WHAT I SEE OUT THERE: People/Companies showing off their mediocre quality welds if judged by the criteria listed above:
Bicycle Fabrication | Made in USA Framebuilding | Chumba USA Is this actually titanium? Some yes, but some of those clips were of their steel frames.(I didn’t watch the entire video, quickly skimmed the welding portions)
Post Mount! | Haven’t done one of these with a bridge in qui… | Flickr Is this actually titanium? Nope, that’s steel
https://images.app.goo.gl/6x4xFXd4gtjTnwvq8 This is definitely Titanium, straw colored weld beads. Yes, that is titanium. My guess on that one is too much tungsten stick out being masked by an excessive gas flow rate.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/848858229738875578/ This is definitely Titanium, with blue coloring in the HAZ. Nope, that is steel as well.
Titancycles on Instagram: “What hell of a bb shell” This is definitely Titanium. Yes, that is titanium. Lots to nitpick here, I’ll just say this; clean your titanium well.
This applies to steel as much as it does titanium, oxidation is caused by a loss of gas coverage above a certain temperature, that temperature is material dependent. A number of factors can lead to the discoloration you mention, but the bottom line is the metal was too hot when it was re exposed to oxygen. Discoloration doesn’t always mean that a part oxidized, contamination can also lead to discoloration and can be as bad or worse than oxidation.
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Interesting!
For the Chumba link I was referring to the picture at the bottom of the page. Is that titanium?
Does the same color informed quality analysis method that applies to titanium also apply to steel?
And is it possible to restore the full strength and ductility of the welded titanium (incl. for the weld bead) by removing the oxidization layer for example by sand blasting? In other words is the brittleness and loss of strength only happening at the surface of the titanium? If it is possible to restore the strength and ductility like this then all of this would be less problematic than it looks.
The picture at the bottom of the linked chumba page is also steel.
Removing the layer of oxidation does not fix the brittleness throughout the HAZ caused by excessive heat and or premature exposure to oxygen.
In regards to steel, yes and no. Color is just an indicator, what is “permissible” changes based on material. While it is entirely possible to get a colorless steel weld, it isn’t entirely necessary and very well could end up just being a massive waste of argon. This is a vague generalization but there are literally thousands of documents that are easily searchable that go over the details of weld inspection.
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I have always used masks that have DIN 5-13. I usually use DIN 7 or 8 on when welding frame tubes. My masks are ESAB Sentinel A50 and A60.
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Can the same be said about titanium? My conclusion from what I read is: less color directly on a titanium weld bead is always better. Anything worse than light straw (blue, purple etc) increases the chance of a crack at the weld in the long run. Not that it has to crack but the risk is definitely higher. Color beyond the HAZ is irrelevant.
Titanium is a different beast altogether. Yes, essentially any color greater than pale straw is bad.
The reason for that is the titanium oxides that create the color are extremely brittle. Hot titanium also likes to absorb those oxides, so it goes deeper than just the surface.
Color beyond the ‘heat affected zone’ and shielding area has to be evaluated carefully, as it could be from not shielding a wide enough area, or just contamination on the metal before welding. Both are still potentially bad.
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Oxidation makes the Titanium more brittle but also increases it’s strength. Is it clear that this is an undesirable trade off?
High performance steels (like Reynolds 853 for example) are stronger but also more brittle. So Reynolds says that they should not be bent (excessively). From that we could conclude that some brittleness (from oxidization) doesn’t hurt because the tubes aren’t bent after they are welded together for example at the head tube - down tube joint.
On the other side: Too much brittleness can’t be good otherwise there would not be a need for the expensive Argon gas which prevents oxidization and the brittleness that goes along with it 
As far as my knowledge goes, more brittleness comes along with a lower level of fatigue resistance. So while the material might have a higher strength for a single static load cycle, it might not be so good under dynamic loading.
As for the example of Reynolds 853, my guess is that excessive bending causes small cracks that act as notches that reduce the fatigue resistance of the material significantly.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
OK, I’m a bit of an AI geek (I work on it for my real job). I also just got a TIG welder (well, MIG/TIG/Stick & Coffee maker) so I’m getting started down that rabbit hole.
What better way to learn than check out the TIG thread!? Uh, WAY too long (ADD won’t allow that kind of focus). Instant Gratification is what I’m after.
Plugged a couple prompts into Copilot in my Edge browser and here’s a summary of effective setups based on Likes:
Prompt: Please provide more detail on effective setups using the reactions/likes to prioritize the different setups.
Copilot
Certainly! Let’s dive deeper into the effective TIG welding setups based on the reactions and likes from the community. Here are the top-rated setups:
- Pyrex Gas Lens with #10 Cup:
- This setup received the most positive feedback. Users emphasized the importance of using a #10 pyrex gas lens for better shielding gas coverage. The gas lens helps reduce turbulence and provides a stable arc.
- Combine the gas lens with a 1/16 tungsten electrode for precise control. Adjust the machine settings to achieve the desired weld bead appearance.
- Notable features: Improved visibility, reduced tungsten contamination, and consistent weld quality.
- Specific Machine Settings:
- Users highlighted specific machine settings that worked well for them:
- Preflow: Set a short preflow time (around 1 second) to ensure proper gas coverage before striking the arc.
- Pulse Frequency: Use a pulse frequency of around 1 pulse per second for controlled heat input.
- Postflow: Extend the postflow time (around 10 seconds) to protect the weld zone after welding.
- These settings contribute to cleaner welds and minimize defects.
- Tungsten Sharpening Techniques:
- While not directly a setup, the community discussed various tungsten sharpening methods. Diamond wheels and cerium oxide wheels were popular choices.
- Keep the tungsten tip sharp and free from contamination for consistent arc stability.
- Experimentation with Filler Diameter:
- Users debated the use of different filler diameters (e.g., .045 or .035) based on joint requirements. Some preferred matching the filler diameter to the tubing size, while others found success with slightly larger or smaller filler.
- Experimentation is key to finding the right balance.
Remember that individual preferences and welding scenarios may vary, so it’s essential to experiment and fine-tune your setup based on your specific needs. Feel free to explore these setups and adapt them to your welding projects! 
AI even added the little flame!
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Duane,
This is essentially spam. It adds nothing new to the conversation except mentions of a few Microsoft products, and the summary elides much of the very valuable advice given by other members, much of it aimed specifically at people new to TIG, such as yourself.
Believe me, I also struggle with focus, but there’s a lot of good input here and it’s worth taking the time to review it.
I added the little flame myself.
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Compiling all of the input was a pain and some people disagreed but both opinions had likes so…
Many forum posts like this evolve over years and there are now tools to help readers summarize without reading a years worth of rando posting to get to the 3 tidbits that most people agreed work.
It helped me summarize the thread into simple bullets that helped me. Maybe I’m dumber than everyone else.
Admins can delete it if it doesn’t add value.
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If I think back 10-15 years to when I was first trying to find out info about frame building, everything seemed really confusing and it was made worse by the fact that I didn’t quite know what to search for or what questions to ask. At the very least, 95% of what I was reading was over my head.
I think the summary is helpful for the newbie dipping their toe. (Kind’ve like Welding Tips and Tricks or Pacific Arc Tig on youtube).
@jellywerker your point about omitting/skipping more in-depth advise is legit but consider who Duane’s post is aimed at. Of those that take the plunge and eventually need more specific info, a bunch will repeat the same questions that have already been asked on the forums (I’m guilty of this). Far fewer will come back and really dive into the 170+ posts. The info will still be there for them if they care. Duane’s summary doesn’t nullify the other posts.
@Duanedr I cannot believe I hadn’t considered using AI as a tool to summarize blocks of text. Somewhere my company has a vault of customer feedback from Amazon, D2C, CX tickets, etc. 9 years of it! I now have a way to start looking at the feedback, (maybe) quantifying it, and either confirming or contradicting my assumptions a bit more objectively.
Responded in messages as this is drifting OT.
Thx
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Available direct from China via Aliexpress, too. $12:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806396081172.html
All the best,
Dan Chambers
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I have that exact one. Works great. Wheels it comes with are pretty rubbish but the rest works as expected.
Hey Folks,
I’m running into a new issue:
A few weeks ago back-to-back oopsies resulted in the premature death of 2 Jazzy cups.
While I waited for new ones to show up I just switched over to a standard #8 stubby and a #8 pyrex.
I got the new Jazzy cups and am having a hard time with arc starts. The arc will start and then almost immediately start to wander up the tungsten and dance around for 2-3 seconds before finally stabilizing. This happens on both of my Jazzy cups but not on the alumina + pyrex cups.
I have done the following:
- reground tungsten (3/32 LaYZr. Dedicated wheel)
- used a sharp + blunt point
- changed collet (wedge and standard)
- checked connections (literally clamped the ground to the test piece)
What else do I need to check? CFH?
Check argon flow rate, did you adjust for the #8 cups? Did the gas lens or spacer get damaged when the cups broke?
I personally don’t like the Furick cups, they require high flow to work properly and can cause turbulence when welding into corners and complex nodes. My preference is for a flooding cup which is less prone to turbulence since it requires lower flow to achieve adequate coverage.
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Thanks Nick!
I reached out to Furick and Mike responded directly. He suggested hitting the electrodes with something to remove any oxidation. I’ll do that and re-check the CFH (IIRC I usually have it set to 15-18 and it’s been fine). Neither the lens nor the space look damaged. The hits weren’t hard, they were “just right” one of those “I’ll just do this really quickly” moments that you learn from.
What cups are you using?
The Jazzy is basically a stubby #10. I tried Kris’ (44 Bikes) set-up and it felt too heavy but I liked the coverage especially when welding the crotches of stays. I’d be happy to try something else out if you have a suggestion.
FWIW I’m only welding 4130 so moving to a #12+ seems overkill.
