Oh my god.
Can you shut the fuck up and go away? What’s your PayPal? I’ll give you a fiver to leave me alone. The fucking way you present it devalues your fucking opinion. If it wasn’t important, you’d have fucked off my build thread by now, and yet here you are, continuing to fucking talk. Bloviating pain in the cock.
Looks rad, kinda like a big full squish BMX.
Maybe a subtle splatter on top of the silver? Splatter is never wrong in my opinion. Embrace Jackson Pollock.
It’s your build thread but it’s public forum. If you didn’t want comments (good and bad) then you wouldn’t post. @AndrewRStewart is hardly being a dick in the way he’s expressing his opinion.
Also think the splatter looked junk/cheap ! The silver is better. Who gives a fuck about paint though. Hope it shreds!
He absolutely is.
But, like usual, I’m the problem. I have been considering not posting, I’m really tired of the internet and apparently i don’t have the temper for it, and I’m tired of being angry about a stupid fuckin bike forum.
So, I’m gonna do that. Im gonna take a break from posting. You guys have a great day, ill see you around.
You’ve massively overreacted here and I think you’re right, you don’t have the temper for it. Andrew said your paint looked childish’ cause it did. If you don’t want anyone to pass comment on your work, then don’t post it. But the better thing to do is to keep posting but learn how to deal with comments that don’t align with your own opinions.
See, this is the shit here. I don’t give a fuck that boomer dickhead (my opinion) doesn’t like my shit. I don’t care if any of you do, I build it to please one miserable asshole, and I’m him.
What hit me like a bucket of water this morning was this,
Why am I the only one expected to “deal” with his opinion?
He came over, voiced his opinion. I did the same. I said you can disagree with my choices without being insulting. That my opinion because I wouldnt drag my ass into anyone elses build thread and call their shit childish and cheap. There are a million ways you can say that things aren’t your style, or you don’t like it, without being purposefully insulting. That’s a thing that assholes do, just like a couple people now with their little shots, little jabs, just gotta get a “fuck you” in there wherever you can.
My opinion is, if you’re adding insult, where there really doesn’t need to be any, you are looking to pick a fight. And now he’s all ass hurt because he got one (still just my opinion). It’s just like every fucking boomer car show, these dicks stroll up and just trash anything that isn’t their stupid, boring, vanilla shit and just think they’re fucking justified in saying whatever the fuck they want as long as they put their hands up and say “no offense” or “it’s just my opinion” Cool. Well, that guy is a fucking asshole. And that’s my opinion, and since I’m also a fucking asshole, my opinion is valid too, right? Or does the opinion validity shield only cover the original, offending, asshole?
So, I guess I want to know why everyones fucking opinion is so precious and worthy of respect, except mine. I don’t go on to people build pages and talk shit, however, I might just start now. Just go tell everyone that anything they do is cheap looking, childish and stupid, but, hey, just my opinion, you can’t get mad! I even played the boomer reverse card and said it was just my opinion at the time, but I guess that doesn’t work for me. Becuase my opinion, apparently, isn’t worth respecting.
Nice fucking double standard we have here, isn’t it? Asshole insults me, and it’s fine. I insult him right back, and I’m in the wrong. Fuck that. And now everyone is like, “hey, you don’t need to speak to people like that” and from you guys, I guess, that opinion is supposed to be valid and I need to respect it, but coming from me it’s a massive over reactuion and I need to learn the value of other people’s opinions. It’s absolute bullshit.
And if it’s gonna be that kinda party (etc, etc mashed potatoes) I don’t fuckin wanna participate. I’ll take my cheap, childish bullshit and just go mind my business. I’ve felt increasing out of place here for quite a while and this whole thing just proves that I don’t fucking fit in here, I don’t “go” here so I don’t know why I go here.
But, that’s just, like, my opinion man. So, I’m sure, this is also wrong.
I get if you want to go. If you do go, I’ll still be able to follow along through your youtube right?
I wasn’t going to get into this, but then I saw this comment…
This is supposed to be a supportive forum. As has been expressed before, there are many ways to express that you’re personally not into something without being insulting.
And what you’re doing here is validating shit manners by telling @SoyWater to suck it up and deal with it.
There are plenty of things in the world that we have to suck up and deal with. Can we not just agree that a forum where people come and share their passion projects should be free of that kind of vibe?
Then we have this non-apology that should also be addressed.
Saying you’re sorry for how the target of your comment reacted to said comment is the opposite of an apology. If it was truly meant as an apology, an acknowledgement that the way your critique was expressed was inappropriate should have been included.
It also doesn’t matter how supportive you’ve been in previous comments in the thread. As if that justifies anything.
I slept on it and came back to say basically say this, so thanks for chiming in jimmy.
we, and it is we, do get to choose how this forum gets along. i’d way rather it got along in a way that tried to cultivate the kind of divergent thinking that we all do, than in some sort of other, shittier way, so Im glad Im not the only one voicing that.
If you react to mild criticism of a cosmetic choice you yourself didn’t like enough to keep by resorting to a barrage of insults while also playing the victim, you should keep a private journal instead of posting on a public forum.
Neat bike. Looks fun
I see where you’re coming from nick, and I’m not here to condone the barrage of defensive responses we’ve seen above. It’s fair to read those as an overreaction.
I think it’s easy to belittle what’s happened; because it might not have offended ourselves. But WE are not all the same, (again, it is we) and ultimately calling someone’s work childish is simply unnecessary.
“childish” is not productive criticism. Unproductive criticism isn’t why I’m here, and I don’t imagine it’s why any of the other people contributing work are here either.
I think it makes sense to zoom out here; at which point I think it’s pretty obvious that we don’t want to tell someone they shouldn’t be here, for defending their feelings after choosing to share their work and it being insulted;
Wether or not any of us feel @soywaters responses
Are reasonable isnt entirely irrelevant, but it’s beside what I see as the most important point.
I want a forum, and I hope others agree, where we don’t blame for confrontation and tell to leave, someone who’s shared their work, be it work-in-progress or not, and had it insulted.
What I am trying to say is that the reaction doesn’t match the offense. A person who completely flies off the handle and clearly suffers mental anguish over such a small, pointless, and unnecessary comment doesn’t seem like someone who should share their work with semi-anonymous strangers.
Criticism is important. This form hasn’t been the same since moderators chose to remove valid, but somewhat mean-spirited comments that I and some others made about an infeasible design, after which Walt of Waltworks chose to leave. I think creeping toxic positivity is making discussing bikes online pretty boring and I am about done myself.
In short, they have both behaved badly. I have too in my life, and probably will again shortly.
So here’s the thing. You believe the reaction doesn’t match the offense, you believe that, it’s your opinion. So, because you would have reacted differently, I have to do the same? And you get to decide what is or isn’t a small offense? Do I get to decide what bother’s you? Because if I do…
I believe you glossed over a few, very key parts of that converstaion that precipitated that response, maybe I can clarify.
Huge thanks to @JMY, I was gonna mention the “apology” but figured I’d said enough. If you go back, I just said that he didn’t need to go out of his way to add an insult. He came back with the classic “sorry you got offended” and that’s when the wheels came off.
That’s a tactic that manipulative people pull all the time, it’s intentional. It’s the follow up to the initial jab, the 1-2 combo of saying something just shitty enough, just slight enough, that it can be brushed off as a “joke” or “just my opinion” and then when someone responds, you pull the “sorry you got upset” schtick, just kicking the can father down the road and putting the blame on the person you just plainly, and deliberately insulted. Because, now, you, the offending jerk are blameless and “don’t know why someone’s over reacting”, and can play the victim. I’ve seen this a million and a half times and it’s exhausting.
And I’m sorry that you feel that criticism isn’t possible without being a dick, I don’t think that’s “creeping toxic positivity” Again, for those in the back, the differing opinion isn’t my problem. The way it was presented, was. I feel I’ve been more than clear about that. I’m an unpleasant, opinionated dickhead too, but even I can could tell you I don’t like your junk without adding little, petty insults, and I sure as fuck wouldn’t go onto someone’s build thread and insult them, even if it was badly disguised as a back handed compliment. Who benefits from adding the additional little jab of “it was childish”? The guy doing the jabbing, that’s who. In my opinion, that’s shitty behavior. Getting your little points in by punching down at people, why? So you can feel better about…whatever? Doesn’t seem like someone who should share their opinion with semi-anonymous strangers.
See? It’s all a matter of opinion, it’s all smoke and mirriors. Your opinion is X, mine is Y, you don’t agree with mine, I don’t agree with yours. We can sit here, going back and forth until one of us (christ, I hope it’s me) explodes.
Ok. I will revise my opinion once more. I don’t believe this is your forum and I don’t believe any personal attacks belong here, even if you do.
I couldn’t agree more, but only personal attacks from me are not ok?
And I couldn’t be more aware that this is not my forum, I believe I mentioned that, that’s why I keep myself over here in my little corner, doing my stuff. I don’t follow people around and dunk on their builds to try and make myself feel better. Believe me dude, I’m very aware that this is not my space and I don’t belong here, I mentioned that too.
Maybe you should consider keeping a private journal?
I’ve said my piece. I have more to say if you’d like to discuss it in private but nothing here for the form I think you do belong and I think your bike is fucking sick.
I’d rather wash my mouth out with a pistol.
This is just further evidence that you have no business talking to strangers on the Internet. Hope you get the help you need…
This is insane. I’ve just gone back again to look for the insult and I still can’t find it. Is it when Andy said the silver paint was better and the original looked ‘a bit childish’? Please tell me that isn’t what kicked this off…
I think there is a lot missing here and that is way too vague to be useful. I’m glad you bring up Walt though because it is important to understand why Walt chose to leave. Walt is an amazing builder and has made a massive number of bikes. We are talking about someone who made a business of it and was successful. He mapped his workshop and counted his steps to then rearrange his workshop to make sure he was as efficient as possible with his time. His approach to framebuilding is much much different than mine. And that’s important. His feedback to people on this forum is from his perspective and sometimes he wasn’t aware of the difference in approach. I’m never going to sell a bike to anybody. I’m going to be the only person that ever rides my bikes. So for Walt to come in and offer me criticism that is aimed at frame building as a profession is not very helpful to me. Framebuilding is unique like that. Accounting, Physics, Nurses, all those professions don’t have people that do it for a hobby. At least not in the way frame building does. This forum supports framebuilding from the amateur level where someone may just want to build a simple commuter and never make another bike, to the level of making a company and career out of it. We are lucky that all these different perspectives can be here to be learned from. But there is something different when you post your work ASKING for advice, vs posting your work in your own thread as almost a journal/blog. I think those that give feedback need to think about what their goal in the feedback is and if it’s even helpful. To be clear, I’m not advocating for the “professional” framebuilders to never give advice to the “amateurs” nor for the “amateurs” to never give feedback to the “professionals”, just that we understand the context in which we are giving advice and whether it was asked for in the first place.
And this is exactly what I mean. If someone wants to experiment and fail on their own projects, offer advice if they ask, but let them explore and try things out themselves. Have you ever seen BikeKill? I’d love to make more impractical bikes. If “Toxic Positivity” is encouraging people to test out their ideas for themselves and find out if they can make them work, then maybe it’s a good thing. I feel like this mindset reeks of “I know more than you, you’re doing it wrong.” Who are you to say that what they are doing is wrong if you don’t know what someone else’s goals are?
@Nick2 I do want to make clear that this isn’t directed specifically at you, only the behavior that you are advocating for.
@stevenshand gonna tag you here also, but this whole reply isn’t specifically about you, but I think it’s helpful to understand other’s perspectives.