I made my own with the collaboration with Peter from Daambuilt. We wanted a simple not too expensive steel alternative, which at the time was almost none. It is made frome 17-4ph stainless and I really love it.
Right now I do not think it would work the the coaxial derailleur, I would need to make a few modifications.
I think having a universal hanger is really great, no one needs that much unique parts on bicycles.
Hereâs a plate style I whipped up. Roughly 68g without the hanger. Iâd want to press in the nub and insert to save time but not sure if the laser cut plateâs tolerance would allow it. Other option is to oversize the plate holes for sweating or welding the bits in. All parts should be stainless. SendCutSend says itâll be $6.84 for one 316 stainless plate 4.7mm thick and get cheaper for multiples. Not yet sure the cost for the machined insert and nub.
The real trick is creating a matching NDS dropout. Ideally, one that could work with flat and post mount brakes. Working on it and using the recent Fairlight dropout design for inspiration.
As far as whether I like UDH, Iâd rather tell customers that yes they can use the fancy new Sram derailleurs than argue with them why itâs not ideal for metal bikes. Gotta pick your hills to die on.
My experience? UDH is a scam for metal bikes. The price and availability of hangers are amazing, but they just introduce so many design compromises to metal dropouts. I have tried MANY times. All the dropouts end up big, ugly, and overpriced
However 3D printing is viable for everyone. The dropouts end up costing ~$200 and take a lot of time to customize for different sizes and models.
Opinions:
Classic lines and simple aesthetics are a big draw for custom frames. UDH ends up making the dropouts big, heavy, ugly, and expensive. We canât compete with weight, technology, and futuristic look of carbon frames. I would rather we create our own well engineered, universal standard for metal bikes.
One last hot take 100% my opinion: I donât like SRAMâs engineering culture. They donât value the compatibility and longevity of their products. They create new standards whenever it best suits them. Here are some examples:
Instead of adopting a spindle standard, SRAM always makes their own. Why is GXP 24mm AND 22mm?
SRAM didnât have the foresight to make XD compatible with road cassettes. So instead, they just created the XDR standard
For road groupsets, they pushed the XDR standard for the 10t cog. Smaller cogs on road bikes donât make sense, and the pro teams, who would be strong enough to push a 10t agree
Sramâs 12s road and mountain bike chains are inexplicably not compatible
When Shimano released their 10-51T cassette, SRAM responded by releasing a 10-52T cassette that requires a new lunar derailleur standard
I think UDH is a great idea, but I just have a beef with SRAM
When the 44mm headtube came out people stated is was âbig and uglyâ,. âtoo chunkyâ, âlooks horribleâ. But Iâd say now weâre all a custom to it and it looks ânormalâ now. A chunkier dropout will look normal soon enough.
To me, it looks like the hanger is so beefy youâd lose the benefit of sacrificing the (cheap) hanger to save the expensive derailleur. Am I wrong? Or do we not use hangers for that purpose anymore?
It was a stop gap to the new direct mount and the active clutch in the AXS was designed to take the impacts rather than break a hanger. I donât think they care about how non electric mechâs handle the impacts.
Also a info piece to be added on UDH is that the Sram made hangers are co-molded plastic and aluminium. These should have some more give to them than a full metal version that most of the alternate brand replacements are.
Good info. Iâm assuming all mid/high end bikes will be electronic within the next few years, so itâs likely the smaller parts (ie us) of the bike industry will have to be adopt this (along with whatever proprietary thing Shimano comes up with).
I have yet to do a udh bike, will be interesting to see if it becomes a popular request.
My post from the other dropout forum on a recent set of UDH drops I made.
I brazed a spacer on the face of the dropout plate to get the depth, then a friend with a CNC bored the hole more precisely. They work great so far. I think it would be possible to make this design with only laser cut parts and hand finishing (for about $12).
The next iteration is a bit better with a shouldered stainless piece brazed into the dropout plate, and Iâm also going to recess the UDH 2.5mm into the plate to absorb some of the depth.
I really like the potential standardization of the UDH, but it is clunky and obviously designed for plastic bikes where the whole body could be absorbed into the stays. As noted above by Daniel, the UDH is so thick it pushes the drive-side so the stays are asymmetrical (at least in my basic design).
One more gripe to add to the list from @Daniel_Y - the UDH uses 1.5 thread pitch. The only axle I could find for my fat bike was a clunky option from Robert Axle Project, which I had to modify to shorten. Granted, not much industry support for fat bikes but it seems like 1.5 pitch on rear ends is unusual?
In defense of SRAM: in my experience RockShox forks have always been great at compatibility, serviceability and support.
I have certainly struggled trying to come up with a more universal hanger that suits UDH however I am about to hit print on two custom jobs which I found it really nice to design around. Plus, how nice is it that you can have your clients get a hanger from any local bike shop instead of sourcing through Paragon or BFS when one gets bent? I am far from a fan of SRAM introducing new standards but I do think this is a good direction and I am hoping to get a few nice options out there soon.
I donât think its a scam as such as its a better solution for making carbon frames. The big guys arenât worried about enabling the small guys. Building mass produced plastic bikes is cheap and is how everything will be geared towards. Coming up with a design in metal thats not 3D printed is really difficult, but Ive come up with a plate style that suits my full suspension frames and Ive adopted a similar style for my road bikes. Ideally laser cut, final machine to braze in the DS and NDS inserts and slot stays for a very strong joint.
Itâs great to have your own signature dropouts but the main reason Paragon is so great is they are a great price for what it is and they will support things into the future, like hangers and axles. Not to say things wonât get phased out but they wonât just suddenly disappear and will give us time to prepare.
If youâre sure the Cannondale or UDH hanger is going to be around in 5 or so years⌠have at it! But even though the PMW flat mounts are not a stunning work of art there is a non stainless paragon that is $63 plus $23 for the hanger unless you go stainless or Ti, so not too bad.
Thereâs a reason many bigger custom builders use hooded with the 5/8â bosses, but the process has to be so dialed especially in Ti when welding causes so much distortion theyâre hard to keep âflatâ. Itâs so much easier and faster to use the Paragons and wait for the next âstandardâ that will hopefully be nicer to build with and look better too!
